AMD too delicate?

[jpn]

:?: I'm paranoid about building a system in terms of AMD vs. Intel in one respect---I've heard so much about AMD cpu's being delicate and cracking upon installation or with cpu fans causing them to crack. Any comments about this?

I've replaced cards, drives, and memory but I've never built one completely from scratch.

[n0strax]

hmm...i've never heard about them being delicate or breakable, i got the amd athlon xp 1800+ at xmas for my new computer i built later that day. the processor installation was the easiest thing, no problems

[SeanOMatic]

Never heard of them being delicate?

Shiet, they crack and chip all the time. Why do you think they sell CPU shims for Athlons?

[Lem6687]

Intels crack and chip just as much as AMD's do....you'll be happier with AMD....and if you do everything right, im sure your AMD wont chip or break...

[SeanOMatic]

How the hell do you crack a P4? They have a slug that completely covers the core?

You are sooo mistaken. P3's even had tougher cores...

The Athlon runs hotter and is a heck of a lot more fragile than any Intel chip.

[apeter]

amds are easy to bust and if you can clock them up to the melting point

p4s are protected by the headspreader on them, and i've heard that they'll clock themselves down if they get too hot.

[Lem6687]

but we all know amd is better then intel....cmon....

[n0strax]

i agree!

[apeter]

indeed!

[SeanOMatic]

Better how?

Price wise, yep.

But AMD has durability issues, and Intel has finally got the performance lead on its side.

[Lem6687]

yea but the intel amd race is the same as the ati nvidia race.

Intel has the edge now with the processors, but what happens when the Clawhammers or whatever they are come out....then amd will most likely have the edge....

Same with Nvidia and ATI, right now the ATI Radeon 9700 pro owns the top of the charts now as for video cards....but once the FX cards come out, then Nvidia will be on top....until ATI comes out with something else.

[SeanOMatic]

I doubt NV will hold the lead for long with the GeForce FX.

[apeter]

fx specs just about match the 9700pro specs, not too impressive for being sooo much later than the 9700pro release. only thing i see going for it is the ghz bus speed

intel in current lead? one word: UGM6.0
(that's only one word!)
they chose 2800+

[Darkparascyte]

In response to -fx specs just about match the 9700pro specs, not too impressive for being sooo much later than the 9700pro release. only thing i see going for it is the ghz bus speed - the first benchmarks for the FX have been released http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardwar...sreleased.shtml (http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/firstgfxbenchmarksreleased.shtml) take a look there and see how the GFX walks all over the 9700 except in the 3dmark test where the 9700 got 4fps better then the GFX, but keep in mind this is only a beta card and not an official retail version, in which im sure the GFX will crush the 9700 :D . And as far as Nvidia taking back the performance lead with the FX, im sure they will stay ahead for quite sometime, they wont let ATI get thier first again. It is rumoured that, nVidia are about to release some information on their newest chip, possibly called the NV31. The information will be presented during CeBit 2003 which will run from March 12th to the 19th and is held, annually, in Hannover, Germany.

[SeanOMatic]

The NF30 is coming out in 3 months, at which point it may beat out the Radeon 9700 by a few FPS.

By then ATI will have the R350 ready to go.

[overthetop]

It's all a leapfrogging game.

You either get what's best (or whatever you can afford) now or you'll always be waiting since there's always something faster, better or cheaper just around the corner.

[apeter]

ok, I was wrong about the fx being the same as the 9700pro, in teh maximumPC test it killed ATI in all the game-based benchmarks

[FreiDogMU]

intel in current lead?  one word: UGM6.0
(that's only one word!)
they chose 2800+

two words 'paper release'
2800 was a special batch, they spent months testing the Tbred B cores at the center of the waffers for that batch. AMD is no longer producing those chips, nor are they selling them. The next time you'll see AMD sell a batch of 2800s will be 2.133ghz Barton chips. And it's anybody's guess at to when that will be.


And as far as Nvidia taking back the performance lead with the FX, im sure they will stay ahead for quite sometime, they wont let ATI get thier first again.

why not, ATI has already said their folloup to the Radeon chipset should be ready for production in Late Feb, early March. Based on the last 2 years i see no reason why that won't, at the very least, compete very well with GFFX.

And as a side note,
the 9700 Pro handels every game, released and expected, with ease, it plays UT2k3 at max details, it handels the Doom III ALpha well, and it's approaching $200; Why whould you want to pay more than double for a GF FX ?

[overthetop]

And as a side note,
the 9700 Pro handels every game, released and expected, with ease, it plays UT2k3 at max details, it handels the Doom III ALpha well, and it's approaching $200;  Why whould you want to pay more than double for a GF FX ?

Pay double??? Not quite. I would pay more for something with better driver support. ATI driver support hasn't been very good so far. I'm very satisfied with nVidia's drivers as oppose to ATI's.

[SeanOMatic]

You still stuck in last year? ATI drivers are just fine now.

[Lem6687]

no kiddin....ATI just released new drivers couple of days ago....and there fine.....the ones before that didnt have any problems either.

[overthetop]

You still stuck in last year?  ATI drivers are just fine now.

Not quite. Catalyst 3.0 still gives me screen corruption and a delay in bringing up the vid control panel over Catalyst 2.5. I'm not even overclocking anything. Catalyst 2.5 was better than 3.0.

I own both high-end nVidia and ATI products so I'm in a position both. Do you?

[Lem6687]

the new catalyst drivers work fine for me....better than the 2.5...what card do u have?

[SeanOMatic]

I have more hardware than you would believe, and NVidia cards are definitely in the equation. I could use a TI4800 or a Radeon 9700 Pro, and I use the 9700 Pro.

Maybe you are doing something wrong?

[Evil_Spork]

ok if you are just careful you wont crack your amd core. granted ive done it twice i do change cpu's all the time. i was being carless. just put the heatsink down onto the core evenly and carfully. dont let that make you spend 3times as much on an inferior intel cpu.

[Cross]

My 1600+ chip didn't crack or anything, it went in fine and the fan was a ... I don't know if this helps you guys...

[Evil_Spork]

amds are not delicate. intels are.

i do have a reason to say that.

if you put 1.725 volts into an intel. it will fry. you put 2.35 in an amd, and its fine. thats why.

as for the physical corem just be carfull.

[randy]

amds are not delicate. intels are.  

i do have a reason to say that.

if you put 1.725 volts into an intel. it will fry. you put 2.35 in an amd, and its fine. thats why.

as for the physical corem just be carfull.

I kinda agree w/ you man.

[chazhick]

I have put in two amds and never had any problems and I messed around, just get an amd and be done with it. Spend the extra money you save from buying an amd and buy a new car. lol If you do buy an amd the soyo mother boards area really nice i love mine.

[Anonymous]

i've put 3 heatsinks on my AMD chip with LOTS of pressure on all of them, no cracking at all, AMD's are just fine.

[SpeedFreak]

i've never had any problems with AMD CPUs. Of course i always use shims.

[Kemo Racer]

I greatly disagree with yall. Intel processors are not only faster, more stable, better in extreme overclocking but also more reliable and compatible. Why do all the top of the line computers use Intel? Because they're better and do the job right on the first try. I feel really sorry for everyone that had their hopes up about an AMD being good. IBM even stated at their conference that in five years there will be no AMD. For people who want to could Kick A system, get an Intel. For everyone else who desires a cheap and crapy system, get an AMD.

[chazhick]

How are they more compatible? I have never had any reliabality issues wiht any of mine and i am over clock and never have any problem. They are cheaper and just as good as an equal intel. Thats my opinions at least. As to they arnt any good, that must be why tons of people use them for gaming and any other tasks. Intel is better for encoding i think but on equal groud everywhere else.

[Master Bob]

AMD is losing the race. they once had a price advantage but now do not. Compare the Barton 3000+ and the P43.06GHz with HT, the P4 offers the most bang for buck. For the exact same price you get a processor which will last you for more than a year because of HT, Eventually all programs will support HT, and the P4 with HT will RULE!AMD only has a price advantage with their low-end processors and thats it. On the topic note I have heard that AMD's processors have heat issues, and as everyone know's heat is bad. Read this:Here (http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2003/03/07&pages=04&seq=15)

And Intel will soon release P4 proccessors from 2.4Ghz and above with HT!

[chazhick]

HT is cool but it might turn out to be juse like mmx, or whatever it was. it was cool but no one used it. I dont know i am just saying. The new AMD's are a rip if you have to pay an equal amount. The price has alwasy mad a big diffrence for a lot of people.

[apeter]

hey now, my secondary computer runs a pentium 166mmx, and it's so much better thand the pentium 200's were, and every proc. that's out there today uses mmx...my 1600+ does, the p4's do...

[Kemo Racer]

With Intel launching there 800 FSB processors, the P4s prices will really drop. they will end up being cheaper than AMDs

[Crews]

just to help the starting post...that about the same and yes it a leapfong game...so get what u can :)

[magnus33]

I greatly disagree with yall. Intel processors are not only faster, more stable, better in extreme overclocking but also more reliable and compatible. Why do all the top of the line computers use Intel? Because they're better and do the job right on the first try. I feel really sorry for everyone that had their hopes up about an AMD being good. IBM even stated at their conference that in five years there will be no AMD. For people who want to could Kick A system, get an Intel. For everyone else who desires a cheap and crapy system, get an AMD.


omg talk about miss informed....lol
faster nope on average there slower or at best are a match
better for extreme overclocking; your kidding right intel cpu's are locked which means you have to use the fsb which stresses all the hardware and has a set limit. more reliable and compatible; again another myth there are no probs with either. andif i had intels huge marketing department i would have a advantage too...lol.
and ibm yeah thats a reliable source there trash talking because there after the same market with apple.
lets not forget this bussness depends on who catchs the other with there pants down. no one expected ati to come out of nowhere and slap the nvida gaint in the face. and to top it off there new mid range cards beat the crap out of anything nvida has now.
either amd or intel could be keeeping quite and come out with something that well trash the other.
hell for that matter some kid in a garage can make a better os the microsoft or design a better cpu.
remeber this is how all this stuff started (thank you homebrew computer group)

[sixshot666]

all amd needs to do is use 4 pipelines instead of 2 for the fsb.barton 3000+(2.16ghz) run at 333mhz(166x2)P4 3.06ghz runs at 533mhz(133x4)
i wish someone could take an intel mobo and close off 2 pipelines and see
how much the difference would be.BTW maximumPC tested both these cpus and declared no true winner.

[Kemo Racer]

In about 2 months you can buy a P4 2.6gig with HT for 150. Thats not only faster than AMDs but also allot cheaper. The new proc with 800mhz FSB will completly dominate the market. AMDs 333mhz FSB will be nothing.

[chazhick]

Thats 2 months, not now plus amd will probably change some stuff by then also.

[sterlon]

Q:What do most people use a high end system for?
A: Gaming

HT is useless in gaming as all it does is makes the os think that there are two cpu's. So what good is HT? None that I can figure out.

[sterlon]

Oh and by the way how do you get a pentium to overclock? Sell it nad buy a athlon.

[apeter]

omg talk about miss informed....lol
faster nope on average there slower or at best are a match
umm...no

[Madblunted]

After reading this thread I was worried that my amd would crack installing the heatsink lol but it has them pads on the thing, and hey it installed fine! I was freaked out over nothing.. But if I had the motherboard inside the case, that would have been a whole different story, as it would have been more difficult to install the heatsink. Maybe thats what has happened to a handfull of people so they say AMDs will crack really easy, I just installed mine before i installed my mobo. Same w/ memory.

[SeanOMatic]

Most people crack AMD's when they use the wrong heatsink, or as you said, install it while the mobo is in the case.

Oh well.

[johnnyxxl]

lol, an age old debate.

I have and will always use amd for the money the performance is better, and the chip is just as reliable. I have never cracked or chipped a core. THe whole shim thing was really for the people that are paranoid and for heat transfer. temp I don;t see mine running hot all I did was use an after market heatsink and fan from ocz, and some artic silver its only in the low 30's for temp over clocking now that is amds puppy they always seem to under rate the chip wit hthat in mind and they are way easy to over clock I have seen and helped over clock so many cpus amd and intel the amd always has more head room before stability, and amd also has a thermal sensor that turns the cpu off if its too hot.

later
john

[FreiDogMU]

If you break an AMD chip these days, it's your own clutz fault, nothing else.
Early Tbirds with S370 HSFs were prone to cracking, and AMD acknowledged this, they also fixed it.
They have dramatically strengthened the core (once in Tbrid, once in Paly), and we now use SA HSFs.


In about 2 months you can buy a P4 2.6gig with HT for 150

that's nice, i can buy a Barton 2500+ today for 165.


The new proc with 800mhz FSB will completly dominate the market. AMDs 333mhz FSB will be nothing.

aside from that being a very ignorant statement, AMD is releasing Barton on a 400mhz bus (the 3200+, at a minimum) about the same time the 3.2 is released.

[Evil_Spork]

hahaha yeah and i cant wait till the hammer chip battle comes! its gunna be sad cuz microsoft is backing AMD cuz their chip is backwords compatible while intels is not haha .. poor intel they took teh nvidia aproach. using brute force to get performance. but as you see from ati and amd brute for does not beat efficiantcy.(sp? errg)

lets look at an amd at 3000mhz and a pentium at 3000mhz... tell me who wins? an amd at aboput 2800mhz will outperform an intel at 4.2gig or more.

take a look at the pcmark stats. it tells alot.

[Master Bob]

First of this discussion should be here (http://www.yoshi.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1005)go there^ and on the second page I have my proof that this is utterly false.
lets look at an amd at 3000mhz and a pentium at 3000mhz... tell me who wins? an amd at aboput 2800mhz will outperform an intel at 4.2gig or more.  


That there is so much utter ignorance and b------t that it is laughable.
also maximum Pc tested p4 3.06 against barton 3000+ the P4 won 11/15 i believe and the barton one 4/15.

Oh and there is NO AMD 3000Mhz, get ur facts straight

[Jeb]

Oh and there is NO AMD 3000Mhz, get ur facts straight

I didn't hear him once say there was. He just said lets look at an amd at 3000mhz and a pentium at 3000mhz... tell me who wins? an amd at aboput 2800mhz will outperform an intel at 4.2gig or more.

Is there a 4.2GHz Intel. Don't think so bud.

[Master Bob]

But the thing is you CAN not look at an amd 300mhz because it has not even been released, and he probably was refer to the a ALthlon XP, and it will never be released. Im preety sure that AMD wants to make the athlon xp's their budget CPUs and the "claw-hammer their mid-high end CPUs

the only thing u can do is speculate.

[Jeb]

Exactly.

AMD vs Intel. Who wins? Both. They will both win because they are the same. Now people that buy a computer from lets say Dell. They go "wow 2.6GHz that must be good." Of course they won't look at AMD because they will see "2GHz? I can get an Intel 2.6GHz and that should do way better then 2GHz."
Now people like us can tell the difference.



For all we know, AMD could have a CPU up their sleeve that could be the killer to Intel. No one will know until it happens.

[Master Bob]

but a problem is that just about all propietary computer makers, gateway, dell, etc, use intel.

[johnnyxxl]

Um I would say both but a number of your big names are still using both chips. I work retail pity me yes pity me. I sell hp computers and they use both chips I always recomend the amd because of the value to performance curve and that most won't run the only software that benefits from intel adobe photoshop.

John

[Master Bob]

yes but in all their adds it Intel inside

and AMD has no price advantage to Intel in all their mid-high end chips.

[TunaPi]

Cray Inc. is building a supercomputer for the U.S. government that will use Advanced Micro Devices Inc.'s 64-bit Opteron processor. :shock:
article here:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,652520,00.asp

i know this is the Opteron and not a "standard" pc cpu
but for Cray to use AMD says a lot to me!
Hey anybody been seeing many Intel commercials on tv lately?
used to see the dayum Blue Man group ones all the time but not for a while now.....hummmm maybe Intel figgered it should spend more on r&d insted of ads cuz their butts are getting kicked by AMD
just my take on things

[FreiDogMU]

and AMD has no price advantage to Intel in all their mid-high end chips.

you've got to check the prices daily anymore.
PriceWatch:
XP 3000+ 320
P4 3.06 382.
XP 2800 210
P4 2.8 301
XP 2500 129
P4 2.53 171

20%-30% is nothing to sneeze at.


As for intel ads?
how have you missed the Centrio blitz the last 3 weeks?
I don't go a day without seeing atleast one of those ads.

[Master Bob]

where are the AMD adds????! Nowhere because Their are no AMD ads. Ya I had noticed, a bit after I posted that, that AMD's processors where cheaper.

[FreiDogMU]

AMD knows very well Intel can overwhlem any tv ad campaign they put out. Intel could put out 10 times the number of ads on 20 times the budget of any AMD TV ad campaign. So they don't bother competeting like that. They go to the internet to computer magazines and on their tech tours, areas where intel hasn't traditional focused it's ad $$, where AMD can be the dominate name seen.

[Master Bob]

because the average consumer does watch a lot of TV, not to say that they do not go online a lot, but dont you think more people would be aware of Intel and not as much with AMD? If that is true lets say someone is going to buy a computer(Dell, gateway) they ask the person what computers they have, the guy says well AMD=1,100 Intel= 1,142 then would they not think oh Ive heard of Intel . . . but who the hell is AMD they are probably some crap "3-rd" party person and then go with Intel?

In my persoanal opinion Intel has the majority of the Main consumer buisness and AMD has the Overclockers (remeber just consumers, not buisnesses). I believe that this is true

[list]a) Can AMD survive with a small percentage of the market actually buying their processors?

b)Who has a larger percent of the "buisness" market (servers, office computers, etc), Intel or AMD?[list]

[bmylez]

Yes, it is true that more people would be exposed to Intel's advertising more than they would to AMD. But that is the way it is with many commercial products. People go with the name, not the quality, unfortunately. Dell and Gateway use only Intel, yet, Alienware, which makes far superior computers, uses AMD. It is frustrating to see ignorant person after ignorant person say "Hmm, Intel must be better because they have more money and advertise more and they look better." Such a pity. When I finally upgrade my computer, I'm getting an Athlon XP, baby!!

[Master Bob]

yet, Alienware, which makes far superior computers, uses AMD.
I have to disagree with this statement, yes Alienware does use AMD processors, but on Alienwares most known and some may say best system, the Area-51, they use a Pentium 4.

[apeter]

yet, Alienware, which makes far superior computers, uses AMD.
I have to disagree with this statement, yes Alienware does use AMD processors, but on Alienwares most known and some may say best system, the Area-51, they use a Pentium 4.
I'll say that it's probably their best system because they oc it from the factory to get it extra performance. (they used to at least...not sure if they do anymore...)***EDIT: yeah the "AlienAdrenaline" package (i believe) is an oc package***

Sure it's the most well-kown system, buy how much is Intel payin' to get their logo pasted on every alienware ad that gets printed?

[bmylez]

OK, I stand corrected in my Alienware-AMD perception. And yes, apeter, I'm sure Intel is hockin' out big bucks for Alienware to stick a P4 into their Area-51. Problem is, Intel has the money to hock out. I just hope that AMD makes a huge stride in progress with those "Clawhammers" I've heard talk of. Perhaps it will be 3.5 ghz! Then Intel will be really hard pressed to get their act together.

[Master Bob]

the alien adrenhaline is a OC package but it is up to the user to use it.

[bmylez]

Speaking of the Adrenaline package, is Alienware the only propreitary computer company that actually overclocks their comps, or do Dell and Gateway do it, without telling people?

[apeter]

there are some other high end companies that do it...

[Master Bob]

Speaking of the Adrenaline package, is Alienware the only propreitary computer company that actually overclocks their comps, or do Dell and Gateway do it, without telling people? I thought that Alienware did not Send you their computer overclocked. did something change? All I knew was they had the option for u to overclock but it was the users preference.
I bet only 'high-end' companies would overclock cause if dell and gateway did then they could end up having fried computer components which would cost them more money.

[MethodTD]

Iv heard of em being delicate too. I got a professional to mount my mobo and stick in the delicate CPU. I didnt really wanna gamble 200 $

[apeter]

I thought that Alienware did not Send you their computer overclocked. did something change? All I knew was they had the option for u to overclock but it was the users preference.
I bet only 'high-end' companies would overclock cause if dell and gateway did then they could end up having fried computer components which would cost them more money.I know that a while ago Alienware shipped OC'd computers...
Dell's cooling setup is made to be quiet...if you oc anything with that heatsink it'll probably get more than a little warm...